Friday, November 14, 2008

Acting White: Church vs. State Confusion

Proposition 8, the amendment to ban gay marriage in California, won in a closely contested battle…and then the fight started. So why did progressive Californians uphold such a plainly biased measure? Church-going whites and blacks, that’s why. Now, everyone knew that the Mormon Church was leading the fight for the ban, but what about Black Church organizations?

The cost of gay rights supporters being no-shows to this battle front is that we will have to live with gays as second-class families a bit longer. Perhaps the Gay Lesbian Bisexual Trans-gender leadership was sure that black voters for Obama would just fall in line and ignore the stated objection to gay marriage presented each Sunday by black clergy. And if you buy this, John McCain wants you to know that Sarah Palin is much more intelligent than she sounds.

Anyway, for this grand screw-up of politics, America gets treated to angry gays tossing around the N-word as if it were the Q-word, rather than placing blame where is rightfully belongs. True colors? Perhaps, or maybe just some serious frustration when you know that your own people eff’d-up big time. For sure, the gay community has its issue with racism, but the black community is hecka-homophobic, as well. Let’s call the blame game a draw.

In a country where church and state are suppose to be separate, the state has no business confusing a religious rite with a legal right. There should be marriage in the eyes of the state (what is called domestic partnership), separate and apart from marriage in the eyes of whatever religion one chooses. What a church believes and does should have no bearing on what the state does. If a couple meets the legal requirement of the state, you're hitched. End of story.

Name-calling between blacks and gays needs to stop, so that each side can be reminded what it means to have the religious doctrine of others, rather than our constitution, control our lives.

James C. Collier

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11 comments:

Dennis Mangan said...

"So why did progressive Californians uphold such a plainly bigoted measure?"

I don't know, why do people like yourself go around calling people who disagree with them bigots?

James C. Collier said...

OK Dennis, you got me. I think biased is a better word, as my argument is about mixing church and state, not one being right vs. the other.

Tanga said...

Here’s the straight dope from a black lesbian:

Are there racist gays? Probably. Have I ever met any? No.
Have gays ever been violent towards blacks or any other minority for that matter? Not that I’ve ever heard of.
Are blacks ever violent against gays? Yes. Black gays and non-black gays alike.
Do gays ever engage in hurling racial slurs at blacks? Maybe, but none that I’ve ever heard of.
Do blacks ever engage in using homophobic slurs? You bet your ass they do.
Is there a fundamental root for racism within the LGBT community? No.
Is there a fundamental root for homophobia in the black community? Yes. Christianity.
Have gays ever given 70% of their votes to deny the rights of blacks, or any other racial minority? I think not.
Have blacks ever given 70% of their votes to deny rights to gays? Apparently yes.

A Go Bytch said...

I'm sorry I haven't really been follwing this topic but.. I do like your spot!!


Go B.

Jackie said...

Tanga, Here's the straight dope from another black lesbian.

Are there racist gays? Absolutely. Have I met any? Absolutely.
Have gays ever been violent towards blacks or any other minority for that matter? As a group, not that I’ve ever heard of.
Are blacks ever violent against gays? Absolutely.
Do gays ever engage in hurling racial slurs at blacks? Absolutely.
Do blacks ever engage in using homophobic slurs? You betcha.
Is there a fundamental root for racism within the LGBT community? Absolutely. It's called white privilege. It does not stop because a person is gay.
Is there a fundamental root for homophobia in the black community? Absolutely. It's the black Christian church's interpretation of the Bible.
Have gays ever given 70% of their votes to deny the rights of blacks, or any other racial minority? The percentage, who knows, but of course they have, especially in the South.
Have blacks ever given 70% of their votes to deny rights to gays? Absolutely, they even helped vote Bush jr. in the first time to deny gay rights.
And yet knowing all that, and that a huge black voter turnout was expected, the No on 8 messages failed to address or even consider these black voters at all. That's the point.

OK, so now we know. We can stop the denial, do the dialogue, and deal with it. All of it. Yes we can!

oldschoolfool said...

Years ago when I worked in a college town, I would often have drinks with an associate professor who was black like me but also gay. We were still able to discuss the issues of the day and his sexual orientation was never an issue.

He eventually died of what we all knew was AIDS, but when I attended his funeral in his home town of Chicago, the attendees were told he died of cancer.

Why are we black folks so homophobic? Just wondering.

James C. Collier said...

OSF: IMHO, black homophobia is a function of reduced education/intelligence, enhanced by church-going vulnerability and influence.

Sacreole said...

Despite raising more money and having a lead in the polls in the run up to the election, the No on 8folks still lost and are still losing in my opinion with their shrill and juvenile tantrums, blacklists, and scapegoating.

Churches have been picketed and vandalized. Businesses and individuals who openly supported Prop 8 are being blacklisted and boycotted. The Black community, which only comprises 10 percent of the California electorate, has been unfairly scapegoated. Yet even without the Black vote, Prop 8would have still passed.

Then there's the issue of discrimination within the gay community itself. Gays and lesbians like to tout diversity and tolerance, yet when it comes to their brothers and sisters of color, they can be some of the most racist, discriminating and provincial people around. Asians, Blacks and Latinos are routinely objectified and are seen as just exotic sex toys.

"Whether you like it or not," we must concede that marriage (with its flaws) has always been known as a heterosexual institution throughout much of human history and recognized by most societies the world over as a union between a man and a women with procreative intent. Words do have meaning and in most folks' minds, marriage still means the union of one man and one woman.

So instead of scapegoating Blacks, gay advocates should forge a constructive dialogue with Black communities/churches and address the issue of discrimination and sexual racism that exist within the gay community. And instead of seeking to change the definition of marriage, gays and lesbians should adopt their own institutions and traditions based on the concept of civil partnerships.

Anonymous said...

The problem is that the government should stay out of the church but it won't since the goal by the elite has been to turn the US into a brown mess.

AnnKura said...

The Black community is probably one of the most homophobic communities in the US. Did anyone think to go to Black communities and lobby for votes, campaign to get those unaware to vote differently? I dare say that, as usual, the Black communities were ignored and they concentrated on white suburban areas. That's just my guess...I could be wrong.

Anonymous said...

The root cause for both racism and homophobia is fear.
Homosexuals are feared because their sexuality is expressed in a way that is counter to the majority population. Heterosexuals cannot imagine why a man/woman could have sex with another man/woman because it is not how they (heteros)experience sexual/emotional gratification or arousal. It physically and/or psychologically upsets them.
Blacks are feared because their culture/appearance/morality is different in some ways from non-blacks. They eat different foods, dress differently, listen to music with a different message, conduct their personal affairs differently that non-blacks. The differences add up to generate fear, the fear that an individual's way of life will be infringed upon, infiltrated, imposed upon, subsumed.
Blacks have been digging their own niche in American society, living alongside, but seperate from the majority population. But whites often only see the negative influences of black society, and feel that the niche has been dug out of their world, and is tunneling into the parts that were once comforting and safe.
Blacks have struggled for their place, but white fear isn't gone yet, it still causes some of us to want to push blacks back instead of inviting them in.
Fear is a great motivator, it just isn't a smart one.