tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post2855818584137169358..comments2023-10-26T02:13:03.378-07:00Comments on Acting White Acting Black: Acting White: Life In The Crosswalk – Part IIJames C. Collierhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06268279457459050826noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-84605681988175044512009-07-21T20:23:46.999-07:002009-07-21T20:23:46.999-07:00And to Anonymous - I don't see anyone angry he...And to Anonymous - I don't see anyone angry here. Well, other than Jeff, and he was white.<br /><br />As for the "baggage", I welcome it, because it means I still have a conscience, still have a stake in the struggle, and that I won't acquiesce to white and conservative ideas that "it's all black people's own fault (due either to biology or a void in morality)".<br /><br />And I'm certainly not self-righteous.<br /><br />I'm just right. =)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-46858424389936099672009-07-21T20:20:21.388-07:002009-07-21T20:20:21.388-07:00I didn't call Jeff any names.
Yeah, it seems ...<i>I didn't call Jeff any names.</i><br /><br />Yeah, it seems both Mr. Collier and Jeff misunderstood who you were talking to...<br /><br />But I'm not so sure about your explanation. I was thinking that it was more an issue of him losing credibility by not being able to support his own argument. Because, really, there is no counter to the arguments that you and I have made that aren't either racist or delusional (or both).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-16398023181333118572009-07-21T20:15:25.878-07:002009-07-21T20:15:25.878-07:00Godheval,
"Mr. Collier, rather than respondi...Godheval,<br /><br />"Mr. Collier, rather than responding to that kind of thing, why don't you respond to the actual discussion?"<br /><br />Respond to what?<br /><br />I didn't call Jeff any names.<br /><br />I was obviously speaking to the mindset that equates blacks with crime and pathology.<br /><br />Collier's just trying to provide an out for the white bigots who encourage him.<br /><br />He won't challenge or condemn Jeff's rants and, AMAZINGLY, suggest that I MADE him act that way.<br /><br />Sad.uptownstevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-18441817804193225482009-07-21T20:04:20.298-07:002009-07-21T20:04:20.298-07:00"-- Anonymous white person laughably trying t..."-- Anonymous white person laughably trying to misrepresent the views of African-Americans.<br /><br />No one thinks such stupid things, buddy."<br /><br />You know when someone feels the need to try and explain the joke, they don't get it. Especially when they don't realize it's a joke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-2043722859596717502009-07-21T20:03:06.294-07:002009-07-21T20:03:06.294-07:00I'll bet that if a lot of the self-righteous a...I'll bet that if a lot of the self-righteous angry blacks who post here knew how much happier James is for not having to carry that baggage around all the time, they'd reconsider their views.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-10752807693778388412009-07-21T19:56:35.876-07:002009-07-21T19:56:35.876-07:00On a totally unrelated note, Mr. Collier, where ar...On a totally unrelated note, Mr. Collier, where are you getting these dot-matrix style "mugcut" images? <br /><br />Are you making them yourself?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-40986808806844635772009-07-21T19:49:35.981-07:002009-07-21T19:49:35.981-07:00I jump in when I have the time and interest, and p...I jump in when I have the time and interest, and perhaps it is a personal failing that the baiting style makes the discussion less interesting.James C. Collierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06268279457459050826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-76551051825209001562009-07-21T19:38:29.192-07:002009-07-21T19:38:29.192-07:00Mr. Collier, rather than responding to that kind o...Mr. Collier, rather than responding to that kind of thing, why don't you respond to the actual discussion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-9714402640367012702009-07-21T19:19:32.117-07:002009-07-21T19:19:32.117-07:00james collier,
"While I wish he had been abl...james collier,<br /><br />"While I wish he had been able to hang in there, Steve's style and, yes, name-calling (which I purposely allowed), got the better of Jeff." <br /><br />Where did I call Jeff a name?<br /><br />If I had went off on Jeff in same manner in which he flipped off on me you would have banned me and you wish he "would have hung in there?"<br /><br />I'll never understand you conservative negroes.uptownstevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-48384652642873099762009-07-21T19:07:58.692-07:002009-07-21T19:07:58.692-07:00But there's so much more here that's not t...But there's so much more here that's not the name-calling. And in any case, Steve certainly didn't call YOU any names.<br /><br />There is a lot of legitimate discussion here to be addressed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-20177141628774434812009-07-21T19:04:33.988-07:002009-07-21T19:04:33.988-07:00Godheval, I juggle many balls here - job, blog, ar...Godheval, I juggle many balls here - job, blog, art, book, family, etc. and I find I have little tolerance for personal attacks, accusations and name-calling. I simply will not respond, regardless of the merits. If this makes my blog unacceptable to those who see this as their right, then so be it - they can get their own soap box, at what time I reach my limit. This discussion did not have to go this route, but for the choices of the commenters. BTW, I checked out your site and will revisit when I get some time. /JCJames C. Collierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06268279457459050826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-86598516201637763382009-07-21T18:40:39.990-07:002009-07-21T18:40:39.990-07:00Steve, I couldn't agree with you more.
Mr. Co...Steve, I couldn't agree with you more.<br /><br />Mr. Collier, I do wish you'd jump into this discussion.<br /><br />Steve has offered up a lot for you to respond to.<br /><br />Oh and Steve, to clarify my earlier statements about the "black bourgeoisie", check out this essay I wrote if/when you have the time/interest:<br /><br />http://godheval.net/the-black-schism/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-72355802267725983082009-07-21T18:35:02.629-07:002009-07-21T18:35:02.629-07:00As some of you will notice, I have deleted the pro...As some of you will notice, I have deleted the profane evidence of ChicagoJeff's meltdown. While I wish he had been able to hang in there, Steve's style and, yes, name-calling (which I purposely allowed), got the better of Jeff. This was an interesting discussion, although I may better enforce the rules of the blog going forward, even while I believe in thick skin too. It's a fine line and I would rather commenters police themselves.James C. Collierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06268279457459050826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-51336443505118084742009-07-21T18:22:57.131-07:002009-07-21T18:22:57.131-07:00Jeff, if you're not gone already...
You said:...Jeff, if you're not gone already...<br /><br />You said:<br /><i>"Uptownsteve: It is you, sir, that have no clue. You insist on name-calling, which demonstrates your contempt of other people."</i><br /><br />At this point, Steve had not called you a name at all. He accused you of not having a clue. Much of what he was talking about up to that point, as I've said, was addressed to that OTHER poster, the one who was citing biological differences.<br /><br />You went on to say:<br /><i>Nowhere in this blog have I read ANYTHING that says blacks are genetically predisposed to do anything.</i><br /><br />Because it wasn't IN the blog, Jeff. It was in a comment by that same OTHER anonymous poster - and that's who he was talking to!<br /><br />Geez, man...you're getting all worked up for nothing here. And really, the only person you're hurting by leaving the discussion is yourself. You're the one who out of "humanistic, psychological,etc." interest entered this discussion to learn some things.<br /><br />By leaving in a huff, you won't learn them, and the rest of us will just keep on going without you.<br /><br />I'd suggest you take a few minutes (hours if necessary) to cool your head, then come back to the discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-84096833258031018412009-07-21T18:16:08.143-07:002009-07-21T18:16:08.143-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ChicagoJeff goodbyenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-83040064690720571562009-07-21T18:09:31.454-07:002009-07-21T18:09:31.454-07:00It strikes me as ironic that you'd run off scr...It strikes me as ironic that you'd run off screaming obscenities in the face of my attempts at reasoned mediation.<br /><br />THAT, really, is irrational behavior.<br /><br />Also, I'm not even clear on why you feel personally attacked by Steve.<br /><br />But, anyway, if you want to bow out of the discussion, at least do so gracefully.<br /><br />Take care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-46098892703729292882009-07-21T18:01:14.033-07:002009-07-21T18:01:14.033-07:00Jeff, that's not helping anything. Uptownstev...Jeff, that's not helping anything. Uptownsteve, please do not justify his rant with a response. Let's the both of you try to stay on topic here.<br /><br />And no Jeff, he was not talking to you, because right after he said anonymous punk, he went on to address the racist pseudoscientific bullshit of that other poster. Check it again.<br /><br />And actually, Jeff, if you simmer your temper a bit, I think you'll be able to acknowledge that Steve has contributed a great bit to this conversation.<br /><br />He's not saying that this is about him, but he's trying to point out to you that there is no one thing or even many things that are "ticking in the minds of black youth", because there is a great diversity of thought amongst so-called "black people".<br /><br />You need to frame your questions and your discussions around specific people (like these youths mentioned in this article), not to black youths as a whole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-76048937035438076152009-07-21T17:56:42.348-07:002009-07-21T17:56:42.348-07:00Steve, I frankly don't know. I only know what...Steve, I frankly don't know. I only know what they should NOT be doing - that being what Bill Cosby and Mr. Collier seem to be doing - taking an accusatory and belittling approach to the problem.<br /><br />I think people like you and I need to be discussing these kinds of issues in earnest, with the intention of bringing about solutions, rather than just highlighting the problems for its own sake (like Mr. Collier).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-49051065244556766262009-07-21T17:52:08.701-07:002009-07-21T17:52:08.701-07:00And to that Anonymous poster who wanted to cite bi...And to that Anonymous poster who wanted to cite biological differences straight out of the "Bell Curve" school of idiocy, there is something you need to understand.<br /><br />While there are biological differences between human beings - individuals and groups - these differences DO NOT correspond to racial categories as they exist in the United States (nor most other places).<br /><br />Racial categories are based entirely on phenotypic characteristics, i.e. the way people look, or where that is ambiguous, the way their families look. These categories would classify people from Ethiopia as being the same biologically/genetically as people from Zimbabwe, and that is plainly false.<br /><br />There are greater differences between the peoples of African nations and even tribes within those nations (nations being products of colonialism and not kinship-based grouping) than there are between African-Americans and the lilly-whitest of Euro-Americans in many cases.<br /><br />Looking at things on the surface, there are people who have "passed" for generations, people who have much of the same genetic makeup as those of visible African descent, but who now you'd classify as "white".<br /><br />You may find in those instances that those "passers" have done better socioeconomically than their darker relatives - an indication that the differences in aptitude have everything to do with social factors.<br /><br />And if you're going to use the Herrnstein-Murray school of racist folly, you might want to check your sources - as neither Herrnstein or Murray were geneticists, neither knew a damned thing about genetics, and not a lick of original research was done for the book. <br /><br />You might also want to note that "black" in many of these kinds of "studies" are based entirely on the subjects self-identification, not on actual biological makeup - as racist pseudoscientists can't be bothered with such things as research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-47709797228194260882009-07-21T17:50:50.976-07:002009-07-21T17:50:50.976-07:00Godheval
"And in their "disappointment&...Godheval<br /><br />"And in their "disappointment", they've become critical, antagonistic, and often no longer in service to the improvement of conditions for African-Americans as a whole.<br /><br />Of course, they also have no obligation to contribute to that improvement."<br /><br />What should the average black citizen do about the condition of the inner city?<br /><br />Given that the US government financed the white urban ethnic's ascension into the middle class.uptownstevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-77755822386314989332009-07-21T17:42:14.232-07:002009-07-21T17:42:14.232-07:00ChicagoJeff,
What you fail to grasp is that Colli...ChicagoJeff,<br /><br />What you fail to grasp is that Collier is stigmatizing black youths with behavior that is extant among all segments of youth.<br /><br />"Mr. Collier is trying to understand what is ticking in the young Black mind and that is what I am trying to do as well."<br /><br />JEE-SUZ.<br /><br />I have two "young blacks" in my house who are vibrant, intelligent and responsible citizens as are their friends and classmates.<br /><br />I was once a young black myself as was Collier.<br /><br />What you sound like you're doing is trying to rationalize bigotry.uptownstevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-29690299120410686892009-07-21T17:40:55.151-07:002009-07-21T17:40:55.151-07:00Geez. I was parsing this thread again, and I thin...Geez. I was parsing this thread again, and I think I identified a problem.<br /><br />@ChicagoJeff - when Steve was talking about "anonymous punks" and "white supremacists", I don't think that was in response to you, but to another anonymous poster, the one who said this nonsense:<br /><br /><b>Maybe you should try to find out the ethnic distribution of the "warrior [gangster] gene".<br /><br />Or Bruce Lahn's findings on recent evolution of the brain in some people groups but not others.<br /><br />I guess evolution is racist.</b><br /><br />That wasn't you, was it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-2138358497364490922009-07-21T17:37:42.183-07:002009-07-21T17:37:42.183-07:00Godheval: Cool. Gimme some time to process (the mi...Godheval: Cool. Gimme some time to process (the mind gears are clicking and clacking) this so far, but I will read your comments thoroughly and throw in my two cents.ChicagoJeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-17752179724261412252009-07-21T17:32:01.227-07:002009-07-21T17:32:01.227-07:00Beyond stating that you could not have an intimate...Beyond stating that you could not have an intimate understanding, I did not in ANY way mean to suggest that you should not participate in the conversation.<br /><br />It was actually a bit of a test to see if you "understood" your "place" in the discussion. And you seem to, so great.<br /><br />I'll wait for your responses to the rest...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25734096.post-45724912149349425632009-07-21T17:15:36.930-07:002009-07-21T17:15:36.930-07:00Goheval said:"With all due respect, too, I ha...Goheval said:"With all due respect, too, I have a problem with you - as a "white" man, thinking you can speak on this issue with any intimate knowledge. At best you can attempt to intellectualize the plight of African-Americans, but you'll never understand it on any internal level."<br /><br />I totally agree that I cannot possibly "understand" the plight of African Americans as I have never and never will walk in your shoes. "Understand" is a poor choice of words and I should know better. But arriving at some sort of understanding is possible. Having "an understanding" is completely different from "understand".<br /><br />And I do not claim and never have claimed any such "intimate knowledge" and am not asinine enough to blow smoke up my own ass. However, I can speak to anything I please with the qualification that I do not walk in your shoes. And just because I am white doesn't mean that I have no place in the conversation.<br /><br />Take whatever I say with a grain of salt. Hell, throw the whole damn salt shaker over your shoulder for all I care. But I what I know is that I am smart and <br />intuitive and have and can and will continue to contribute.<br /><br />This topic is immensely interesting for me from a purely academic, psychological and humanistic perspective.<br /><br />I can't help my feelings of wanting be a part of this conversation. You could use my OBJECTIVE perspective. If this was all about white people, then I would absolutely love to have some non-white perspectives because they'd see things differently. I am white therefore commenting on myself racial self would be inherently biased.<br /><br />I'm not going away.<br /><br />Oh, and, you're right, I did pass over your "why" arguments and will check those out.ChicagoJeffnoreply@blogger.com